Future Minister of Social Security talks about changes in the reform and criticizes the minimum age for women

The future Minister of Social Security, Carlos Lupi (PDT), criticized aspects of the Social Security reform formulated by the Jair Bolsonaro (PL) government and approved by Congress in 2019. He says he wants to discuss the issue with the Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva (PT) government ).

Lupi, who is president of the PDT, considers that he has not studied the subject in depth, but considers that there are “absurdities” in the approved reform, especially with regard to the minimum age for women to retire. He defends flexibility according to the region of the country.

“Must be 60 years old [para se aposentar], why 60 years old? I think you have to think about regionalization. The reality of the Northeast is one, the reality of the Southeast is another,” he told Sheet.

The future head of Social Security still claims that he was tasked with ending the INSS queue.

Mr. it was announced a few days before the inauguration. Already have a priority list? Pensions are scrapped. These last four years for the worker were just losses of rights. The reform created a number of obstacles, including reversing a constitutional process that says the burden of proof rests with the accuser. So, it is the worker who has to prove that he has contributed to Social Security, not the employer.

Is this something that can be reviewed? In the first stage, we are starting the survey, and the first mission that Lula gave me is to end the Social Security queue. I have some ideas. And then, you have to put the due precaution that I still don’t have knowledge — I haven’t even been to the ministry, in fact, there’s still nowhere to go because the ministry has been joined, divided.

There is a project to outsource customer service at branches. Could this be a way? It might be. And I will strengthen. What we can do to improve the service is good. My initial impression, without examining, [é que] a large federative pact resolves this quickly, 80% of cases. Why can’t you have agreements with the states and municipalities for the assignment of physical spaces to make agencies, bureaucratic personnel, to help with the effective retirements?

Mr. spoke of something that could be reviewed in the pension reform. Got more points? I haven’t studied this topic in depth yet. I see some nonsense. I continue to find, for example, the question of women absurd. Women’s work is a double shift, and Social Security does not consider it. It only counts what it contributes. If she has a double shift, she cannot have a limited date table like she has today. Must be 60 years old [para se aposentar], why 60 years old? You have to think about regionalization. The reality of the Northeast is one, the reality of the Southeast is another.

Wouldn’t it be extinguishing the minimum age, but making it more flexible according to the region? As per region. But this is something I still don’t have depth, I have to study. I think that today women are overloaded in these Social Security points and you have a lot of difficulty proving it.

Mr. You’re still going to analyze it, then who are you going to hit the hammer with? You have to talk to the Treasury, to Planning, to see how much money you have. This is government, not just the Minister of Social Security. With Congress too. Some things need a new design. But I’ll tell you, I was a deputy. The biggest difficulty I’ve seen in my life to date is a deputy voting against the benefit.

Going back to queue size. In the recent period, the initial requirement even dropped. It was 1.6 million and went to 1.3 million.

In October it seems that it dropped from 1 million. No, it never went below 1 million. This is fact, not fake. It’s 1.3 million. It has to add. One thing is retirement, [outra é] the pension, and the BPC [Benefício de Prestação Continuada] it is mostly because it requires a series of measurements. I am a beneficiary of Social Security, do I have to have a Single Registry? For what? For me to be entitled to a discount on the bus ticket, free subway tickets. Why don’t I create a wallet? I’m going to create a national portfolio of retirees.

Would it be an integration of the National Register of Social Information with CadÚnico? Can also. There are 35 million Brazilians who have some benefit from Social Security. Why doesn’t this stick to just one number?

In the Temer government, Mr. recorded a video in which he promised to disprove the “fallacy” of the Social Security deficit. Even with the reform, the data still point to a negative result. What is your perception today? It’s not today, it’s always, you have to be consistent. First, everything that by law is destined to be part of the Social Security must be included in the Social Security collection. Why isn’t its share in PIS, in Cofins, included in the collection of Social Security?

But that’s social security, isn’t it? Yeah, but it’s Social Security. Pension and social security, not just Social Security. So, we have to put everything that the law says belongs to Social Security in the Social Security collection, because today only the INSS collection is included. It’s wrong. I don’t have the numbers today. But all the numbers I had previously are that it was self-sufficient, as long as the constitutionally earmarked resources for it were considered.

Mr. Do you already have a name for the presidency of the INSS? Not yet. The only thing I have in mind is that you have to have a strong prestige to the career boards, INSS and Dataprev.

Previous governments made several fine-toothed combs. Will this policy continue? First, you have to provide transparency to Social Security data. Those who are afraid to provide transparency are those who are hiding something wrong. The State cannot see retirees and pensioners as a burden.

How was the conversation with President Lula? When they polled Mr. for Pensions? It’s been some time. I kept [a informação] because I felt a lot of contrary reaction from the political world, from the PDT. ‘I want to have cutting-edge action, what will this solve in my municipality?’. And Social Security does not have an effective finalistic action. How do you think you can’t change something if you mess with the lives of 35 million people? Won’t the labor party that defends the worker defend the post-worker, which is retirement? That’s a brand. This began to convince them.

Benefit for retirees and pensioners is a public resource that will circulate, feeds the economy. To think that this is an expense is ignorance. I’m very confident because, first, he [Fernando Haddad, futuro ministro da Fazenda] you know this is a priority. Second, whatever you do to improve will show.

Mr. Did you speak with Ciro Gomes? I spoke yesterday [quarta-feira, 28]. I’ve talked about this poll before. And I spoke today. He said: ‘Lupi, whatever you are, now it’s up to you to serve Brazil. This is an area that only a madman like you is capable of tackling’. I don’t know if it’s pejorative or praised. I think praised, because I’m kind of crazy about it myself. ‘Go deep, I’m with you.’

Does he think that the PDT should have space in the ministry? He thinks that if he invited us, we couldn’t refuse.

Will the PDT be the basis of the government? It will be base.

Mr. Do you think he gave too many ministries to parties like PSD, MDB and União Brasil? Him [Lula] it needs to have a majority, it needs to have governance. If that makes 100 to 120 votes possible, plus what he already has…

X-RAY

Carlos Lupi, 65

Born in Campinas (SP), Lupi helped the former governor of Rio de Janeiro Leonel Brizola to found the PDT in 1980. He assumed the presidency of the party for the first time in 2004. In 2007, he was invited by Lula to take over the Ministry of Labor and Employment. He remained in office until December 2011, under the management of Dilma Rousseff. In 2012, he returned to the national presidency of the PDT.