There is a clash of capitalism and capitalist values, says Paulo Hartung

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Having entered politics as a student leader during the military dictatorship (1964-1985), the former governor of Espírito Santo and economist Paulo Hartung, 65, says he does not see in the entire national history a moment of such division in the country as the current one.

“At no time have I seen or read anything that reaches the kind of division that the country is experiencing today. This division is very deep”, says Hartung, who currently presides over Ibá (Brazilian Tree Industry) and is a member of RenovaBR’s councils. and Everyone for Education.

According to him, president-elect Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva (PT) won a limited authorization from the polls due to the narrow margin of his victory. Hartung also says that PT shows no signs, at this first moment, of having understood the messages given by the electorate.

Hartung, now without a party, politically militated in favor of a third way that did not succeed in the elections.

Has the third way failed to take off because of the plebiscitary nature of this election? The polarization process took place in a resilient way and made it difficult for other alternatives to gain scale in the electoral process. Ciro Gomes [PDT] tried. Before Simone Tebet [MDB]others tried and got stuck halfway.

This is a phenomenon that we are witnessing in democracies, including mature ones. I insisted on the alternative, because life is like the action of a rural producer, who only reaps who sows. It will only have a chance of successfully contesting an election in the future if it participates in this one and sets the agenda that differs from polarization. I think it was worth the sowing.

What diagnosis did Mr. see the results of the polls? I have been in politics since I was a boy, in the student movement fighting for democratization in the country. I have gone through this entire process of democratization of the country until now, and I am a dedicated reader, I really like history, so I think I have a statement to give clearly. At no time did I see or read anything that reached the kind of division that the country is experiencing today. This division is very deep.

Not even in the Vargas period? No, I read and studied a lot during that period. It is the biggest division in the history of our country. That’s my vision, I’m nailing.

It is a regional division, deeply wide open. It’s economical. I will give an example: Brazilian agribusiness, which plays a strategic role in the Brazilian economy today. Even in the field of religion, you find a deep division in the country. In the military field. Signs have been given, but political analysis is failing to capture it.

I wanted to say that we need to be humble. We still don’t understand what’s going on. I see many analysts with definitive views on this, so stamp, stamp, stamp. And stamp doesn’t do that.

Brazilian citizens are increasingly uncomfortable with government inefficiency. This is there in 2013 [manifestações de rua], this is a sign. I think people don’t want that story of more government anymore, they want a better, efficient government.

When you see a sentence that hits the Brazilian, like this, look: “you have to take a government out of the neck of those who work and produce”. Then you can see how this section has repercussions in Brazil.

This is a phrase often used by B supporters.olsonar… I will get there. I saw this many years ago at an airport, I was passing by and a person in front of me said: “Less Brasilia and more Brazil”. Whoever was on the side applauded the guy. There are signs that indicate that the country has changed and is changing a lot and fast.

There’s another Brazilian on the track. And Brazil’s great leaders are not understanding this, and analysts are not capturing it. There is a clash of capitalism and capitalist values, but I reiterate that this is not a definitive analysis, I am also trying to understand. People need to understand this so as not to go down a path that is the opposite of a movement that is generating an aspiration in society. I think this is the great challenge facing Brazil today.

In the same way that there is this phenomenon that still needs to be understood, there is also a very expressive contingent on the other side – which overcame these elections🇧🇷 who perhaps outright rejects such reflections. Does this not have to be taken into account? Clear. I always thought that extreme positions are not good, right? I even have a saying that extremism doesn’t give anyone a shirt. If you fool, take what little the citizen has.

But I think you need to understand the movements that are taking place in society. It’s no use stamping those who didn’t vote fascist like you. Is not. You will look at the 7th of September, it is a very large, robust manifestation. It needs to be understood why so many people are willing to leave their homes, put on clothes and demonstrate.

For the next cycle in Brazil, you have three tasks that I consider fundamental.

It needs to seek to understand the other and seek some levels of pacification in the country. Not pacification with institutions, it is with the street, with society. You need to stabilize expectations. The country’s economic expectations have again unraveled. And you need to do these two things while taking care of a third one, which is to face the problem of poverty.

The world is not the world of 2002, when Lula was elected president and I was elected governor of Espírito Santo. The world there was the world with the wind at its back. Now it’s a world with wind in its chest. The energy crisis in Europe, inflation in the United States, the waning economic dynamism of Asia and China.

“Ah, but there are many international opportunities”. Yes, just see that it is the repercussion of the Brazilian election. It was very strong, there was only a period of comparison of everything I saw and read. He is Dr. Tancredo Neves, when he was elected to the Electoral College [em 1985]🇧🇷 There he had an impact on the world. The world wanted to consume democratized Brazil. Today the world wants us to take care of the environment.

The elected government, based on the first signs given, is moving towards fulfilling these three tasks🇧🇷 Not. But it’s maturing. Elections bring two things. First, an authorization type. The second, the message from the polls. What authorization did the Brazilian give? A limited authorization. Whoever was elected did not understand this and needs to understand. There is no blank check.

The second thing, it has very strong messages for those who won and for those who lost.

Spending is not life. It could be inflation, erosion of household income, unemployment. We are in a cycle of falling unemployment in the country. The Central Bank acted in front of the central banks, it took an important step showing that autonomy was a hit.

So the first signs are in the direction of the tasks we have? No, in my view. But I don’t close the door. The government is not alone in the field, it does not have WO, it has society, demanding, holding the debate.

These are signs that need to be seen. Like the American election [midterms, eleições de meio de mandato nos EUA]🇧🇷 She sent a result to the incumbent [Joe Biden] with inflation taking a toll; and also to the Trumpist group, for [eles] have gone to the parallel reality, deny the election result, invade the Capitol.

Mr. Do you think that the top of Congress and the parties are having a qualified debate with the new government on this? Congress is not an obstacle in Brazilian presidentialism for a government official who is clear about what he needs to do. It’s talking, negotiating and building a base of support before taking office. Just see what the current president, the mistake of only setting up the base in the middle of the government and paid dearly.

The other part of the answer is as follows. Parliament accepts any expense. That’s why a minister’s authority is so important. Someone needs to say no, to say that this breaks the country, which is giving to the poor with one hand and taking with the other, taking more than they are giving.

There is no room for us to experiment with politics, an economic policy that has already gone wrong in Latin America, which has already gone wrong in Brazil. Have pity, this will cost dearly from a political point of view, which is the language that is often understood. In a little while the good and great [nas pesquisas] collapses and people won’t know why it collapsed.

In addition to the economy, what other crucial fields need essential government action? Another action is through education. Today we have successful experiences throughout Brazil that need to be scaled in Brazil. And it needs the Ministry of Education, which we haven’t had in recent times.

We have the experience of the Unified Health System, going through this pandemic. It is clear that we need to strengthen the SUS, improve management.

Another fundamental issue is combating violence in the country. You can’t have that number of homicides, that and civil war. You have to put the federal government in this game and it’s no use pushing it to the state governments. We need to do what other countries have done, a single Public Security system that involves the Union, states and municipalities.

And when we say that, everyone already thinks with the head of my student generation. More money, more money, more money. We can even put in more money, but we will first need to improve the quality of management, which is prehistoric in Brazil.


X-ray

Paulo Hartung, 65

An economist, he is the executive president of Ibá and a member of the boards of RenovaBR and Todos pela Educação. He presided over the Central Directory of Students at Ufes (Federal University of Espírito Santo) in the late 1970s. He was state deputy for two terms, federal deputy in 1991 and 1992, mayor of Vitória (1993-1997), senator (1999-2002) and governor of Espírito Santo for three terms (2003-10 and 2015-18).

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