Interview on the website of the German newspaper “Bild” granted by Prime Minister Kyriakos Mitsotakis, specifically to journalists Paul Ronzheimer and Liana Spyropoulou.

Read the interview in detail:

Paul Ronzheimer: Mr. Prime Minister, you are in an election campaign and I remember in 2016 there was a politician who ended up winning the election who campaigned for a wall against refugees. Now there is a discussion about a wall on the border with Turkey. Do you copy Donald Trump a bit?

Kyriakos Mitsotakis: First of all, I don’t have thick blonde hair, so I don’t think the comparison is very apt. However, what we did from the beginning, when I took over the government, was to impose a strict but I think fair immigration policy. Let me remind you that six months after assuming our duties, we were essentially faced with an organized invasion of illegal immigrants in Greece, that is, in European territory.

I wouldn’t call it a wall, a protective barrier, a fence. It is a part, not the only solution to the immigration problem, but it is certainly a component that significantly reduces illegal immigration.

Paul Ronzheimer: Would you say that because of this wall fewer immigrants are coming to Germany?

Kyriakos Mitsotakis: Thanks to the wall and our overall immigration policy, fewer irregular immigrants are coming to Greece, that is, to Europe. If you look at the absolute numbers, there is proof of what I’m saying. In 2015, 75% of illegal migrant entries into Europe took place through Greece. Now it’s less than 10%.

Liana Spyropoulou: However, the European Parliament recently rejected funding for the wall. It was an initiative of four political forces in the EU. Will you pay for the wall, the fence yourself?

Kyriakos Mitsotakis: I believe that there is a general confusion at the European level as to what exactly can be financed with European funds. For example, right now, we can fund technological tools that frame the wall, we can’t fund the wall itself. Regardless of what Europe does or does not do, I have said publicly that we will build our own fence, even if it has to be financed by the Greek taxpayer.

Liana Spyropoulou: Is it fair for Greece to pay for this alone?

Kyriakos Mitsotakis: It is certainly not fair. This is exactly what I stand for. We are a state that is on the front line. We are experiencing significant immigration pressures. We expect help from the European Union.

After all, we need more money for immigration and we need more money to support frontline states. So it is very unfair, on the one hand, to ask Greece to take on the difficult task of protecting the external borders and then blame Greece when it does the work on behalf of others.

Paul Ronzheimer: Germany is one of the states that opposes the wall. Why do you think this happens? And is there a way to convince Olaf Scholz that this is the right thing to do?

Kyriakos Mitsotakis: First of all, I have a very good relationship with Chancellor Scholz. I believe we understand each other’s positions and opinions better. I understand that there are secondary flows to Germany because it may be somewhat natural for potential asylum seekers to seek the most generous benefits. On the other hand, I think Chancellor Scholz also understands the pressures we face as a state on the front lines.

But I repeat: an obstacle, a fence, a wall is not going to solve the problem by itself. We need a comprehensive migration policy which includes how we manage secondary flows, a fair sharing of burdens in terms of those we have accepted as refugees, what we do with returns. This is absolutely critical. Those who are not entitled to refugee status must return to their countries of origin.

What are we doing about legal immigration and how do we open legal immigration pathways? Once, at the European Council, I used a phrase of one of your colleagues, an American journalist, Thomas Friedman, columnist for the New York Times, who said: what we need is a big wall with a big door. The great wall is to ensure border protection and the great door is a generous policy to welcome refugees but also the legal entry of economic migrants – because we need human resources to support our economic growth – into our European family.

Paul Ronzheimer: If it’s about walls and fences, Germany – as some would argue because of our history with walls and barbed wire on the former German border – cannot accept it. Do you understand that the Germans have a problem with the idea of ​​building a wall in the European Union?

Kyriakos Mitsotakis: I completely understand where Germany’s positions come from. But this is not a wall within the European Union. It is a wall on the borders of the European Union. So if we want to have a Schengen zone with free movement of people, we have to make sure that we protect our internal space.

Paul Ronzheimer: So then the whole European Union, at least at the borders, needs a wall.

Kyriakos Mitsotakis: It depends on how many land borders we have. When you look at the land borders, there aren’t that many. For example, with Turkey – Ukraine is a special case – if we look at the flows from the south or the east, there is a land border between the EU – ie Greece and Bulgaria – and Turkey. That’s all as far as land borders are concerned.

Paul Ronzheimer: So how are you going to convince Scholz and Macron?

Kyriakos Mitsotakis: I think that Macron is convinced. But, I will say it again, ultimately I have an obligation to the citizens to protect our territory and to ensure that there is never a return to a situation where anyone could enter without a trace of respect for the rules of my country. That’s what I’m saying. I will press the European Union for maximum support. If this is not possible, we will build the fence with national funds. It’s expensive, but it’s totally doable for a country like Greece.

Liana Spyropoulou: In this area there are several accusations, not only from NGOs but also from voices within Europe regarding re-emotions by Greek authorities. What is really going on?

Kyriakos Mitsotakis: We do not do re-promotions. However, we prevent illegal entries into the sea. I am very clear about that and we strongly believe that this falls within the EU regulations. But at the same time, we have saved thousands of people at sea who were at risk of drowning. I want to be very clear about this, and I also want to explain it to your readers: the fewer people we have at sea, the less likely we are to have drownings at sea.

Paul Ronzheimer: But there are many accusations, from many organizations, saying that the Greek Coast Guard is doing these pushbacks. There are even accusations from refugees that money was taken from them, that objects were taken from them.

Kyriakos Mitsotakis: I have seen these complaints. I can tell you that we have not been able to document any incidents where this has actually happened.

Paul Ronzheimer: There are many discussions about immigration in Germany. We have talked a lot about stopping refugees at the border with a fence. We also have the debate whether the welfare system in Germany increases the number of refugees coming to Germany. We also have a discussion saying that only people with a positive asylum decision should enter Germany, which would mean that Greece would have a bigger problem. What is your opinion;

Kyriakos Mitsotakis: If someone is granted asylum in Greece, I would like these people to remain in Greece. And if they want to “build” their lives in Greece, we will welcome them. Are we able to offer the same benefits as Germany? No, we are not as wealthy a country as Germany. And I cannot offer refugees in Greece more benefits than I offer Greek citizens. I think this is completely understood by everyone.