Right in Latin America wrong to cheat on Trump, says former Spanish prime minister Zapatero

Former Spanish prime minister José Luis Zapatero assesses that the Latin American right is making a series of mistakes by copying the strategies of former US President Donald Trump and embracing denialist ideas – possible defeat of Jair Bolsonaro (PL) in the second round this Sunday (30). ) would be, for him, a new example of this.

“Trump, Brexit and Bolsonaro’s policies are the same type of populism. But populism ends itself, because it is based on false theses. Delusions in politics always end in defeat”, he tells the newspaper. Sheet.

One of the leaders of the left in Spain, Zapatero is in Brazil to monitor the election. A supporter of Lula, he says he hopes that Brazil will once again lead international union efforts if PT wins. “Lula was the most respected president in the world. Now that there is a broken international system, he can make a great contribution to rebuilding it.”

How do you evaluate the global wave of the right that took place a few years ago? We tend to talk about waves, cycles. There is actually a democratic alternation. If there are consecutive victories for the left in Latin America, it is because the right and center-right align themselves more than ever with Trump’s policy. It is a policy completely outside the Latin American vision.

They built a theory with the Lima Group that said that the problem was communism, when capitalism is evident on every corner. They lost the sense of history. The problem in Latin America is poverty, inequality. If this is the region where there is more violence and organized crime, it is because there is an excessive difficulty in having solid institutions, with transparency, without corruption.

Instead of betting on economic development, they established a crusade against something that does not exist and with a negationist discourse – which denies vaccines, says they want the end of the family. But the math exists. The Earth is not flat. It comes as a surprise to me that the right drifts away from this denialism. It’s unfortunate.

Would this cycle be over now, then? I think it’s something ephemeral. Brexit and Trump’s defeat are proof of that. In Spain, Vox is in decline. Let’s see Bolsonaro. There is no way to sustain a political project with false bases. If your political project is to say that George Soros is taking international action by vaccinating and creating things against families — that’s a delusion.

Trump, Brexit and Bolsonaro’s policies are the same kind of populism. But populism ends itself, because it is based on false theses. In the UK, they thought that the stagnant economy was the fault of Brussels, of immigrants. Now they don’t know what to do, because they made a mistake.

What is the expectation of Mr. for the Brazilian lawsuit? It’s a historic election. I have a relationship with President Lula for years, and his return to politics is a factor of joy and hope for me. When I was president of the government, Lula was the most respected president in the world, the one who had the greatest capacity to be heard by everyone. Now that there is a broken international system, I believe that Lula, if he wins, will make a great contribution to rebuilding it.

What steps can he take in this regard? On his visit to the European Parliament last year, Lula explained the idea of ​​convening an international conference to review the multilateral system. He, Brazil and Latin America have two great assets: it is a region at peace, without military conflicts; and has the capacity to dialogue with the East, the West, the North and the South.

Latin America has a good relationship with China, dialogue with the US. The issue will be in Lula’s hands, because Brazil is the most important country in the region. The task may sound utopian, ambitious, but it is essential because the development of the 21st century has expressed itself in a dangerous way – it looks more like the first part of the 20th century. insecurity, inequality.

Brazil has lost its voice and influence in the world.

Do you think there is a risk that Bolsonaro will not recognize the election result, if he loses? I think there is very little possibility of that. When the people speak, it is very difficult to go against it. Then there are the institutions and the international community. I sincerely think that the result will be accepted by everyone. The US Capitol Invasion Case Was a Great Vaccine [contra ações golpistas]. The only thing they can do is act grotesque. Then they will have to answer in court.

What weight will Lula’s victory or defeat have for the left at a global level? Lula has great popular support in Europe — not just in Spain, but in Germany and France as well. On his last trip, this became very clear.

It is very important for the history of politics that Lula was able to run in elections again. This was very important for confidence in politics, including for those who are against it. The countries where people live best are those with broad institutional respect and little fanaticism.

Mr. was at the beginning of the month in Venezuela. How do you assess the current situation in the country? Venezuela’s policy has advanced through dialogue. There is a reconstructed dialogue with the US government. Colombia has re-established diplomatic relations. The opposition and the government are in dialogue. The economy is improving. We will walk firmly on the idea of ​​consensus until the 2024 elections, in which it is desirable for everyone to participate and for conditions to be democratic, for Venezuelans to decide freely.

You cannot decide the future of Venezuela from Washington or from anywhere outside Venezuela, even if you are very critical of the government. [de Nicolás Maduro]. Venezuela is a great lesson that only dialogue builds politics. When there is a conflict between two parties, almost always neither party is absolutely right.

Elections are the only way to change governments. Mexico and Colombia had historic changes, and everyone accepted. This says a lot about Latin American society, which sometimes criticizes itself too much. Europe has been at war for almost 2,000 years, it cost us a lot to learn.

How do you see the prospects for Europe? Russia’s invasion of Ukraine was very critical for the European Union, because it put Germany in an identity crisis. Berlin based its economic strength on Russia’s cheap energy and trade with China, and these two pillars are at stake. I am also concerned that the war and the pandemic have generated a political retraction; time will be wasted trying to stop history, which in fact has no brakes.

I hope that the War in Ukraine will move towards a scenario of political negotiation. It is always difficult to say this to governments, but there will be no military solution.

Mr. led Spain during the 2008 crisis. Do you see any parallels between then and now? There is a fundamental issue: the West has been losing positions in world GDP over the last 30 years, which is inevitable. It was an exceptional fact that the US and Europe, which have 11% of the world’s population, had sixty-odd percent of global GDP in the 1960s. It was an anomaly. We are now at 40-40, between Europe-US and emerging countries.

As a result, developed countries have had progressive indebtedness to maintain the economic level, but they are left with limited productive capacity. The US and Europe need to be aware that there is a new geopolitical and geoeconomic reality; 80% of the world’s population lives in these continents with a young population, while in the US and Europe there is progressive aging. By 2030, 60% of the world’s middle class will be in India and China.

X-ray | Jose Luis Zapatero, 62

He was president of the government (premier) of Spain between 2004 and 2011, for the left-wing PSOE (Spanish Socialist Workers’ Party). Born in Valladolid, he studied law at the University of León, where he later became a professor. In 1986, he was elected to Parliament, where he remained until 2011. Afterwards, he joined Spain’s Council of State and worked in foundations.