It’s hard for the United States to go around giving diversity lessons to the rest of the world because they too have homework to do. So says Gina Abercrombie-Winstanley, 64, who took over in April the newly created head of Diversity and Inclusion at the US State Department, new to the Joe Biden administration.
“With the United States not being perfect, there is no nation that we can preach to and say ‘you should do this or that,'” he tells Leaf, in a conversation at the residence of the consul general of his country, in São Paulo.
Brazil was his first stop on an international tour, the first since he assumed the position. During her visit to São Paulo in early December, the diplomat who served as ambassador to Malta for the final four years of the Barack Obama administration did not bump into many black people like her.
“I certainly noticed that most of the people I saw were white. Definitely lighter than me. And knowing that the population is close to 50%-50% [negros e brancos], I asked myself, ‘Okay, where’s everything else?'”
Abercrombie-Winstanley once defined the State Department as “pale, male and Yale”—white, masculine, and heavily imported from Yale, one of the American elite’s favorite universities. The game is changing, but there is still ground, he says. “We are not where we should be.”
The diplomat recognizes that the diversity agenda has a “backlash” effect, as we call an aggressive rebound of groups reluctant to social changes underway. Hence the strength of the ultra-right today, with its aversion to rising identity agendas. Here Abercrombie-Winstanley goes from Nina Simone: “In 1976, she wrote a song called ‘Backlash Blues.’ So it’s not a new theme.”
THE who brings you to Brazil? It’s my first trip in this new position, and [o paÃs é] my first stop on my world tour. Brazil was particularly attractive, because we have this great partnership. We share a commitment to democracy. And we, as a diverse nation, know that with you, also a diverse nation, we share challenges.
Mrs. visited an exhibition on Carolina Maria de Jesus at the Moreira Salles Institute. Liked? Yes, fascinating! I will also have to return to Masp, both were fascinating. I didn’t know anything about her before I got there. It was inspiring, as a black person and as a black woman, to see someone struggle to make their voice heard in times so difficult for women, let alone black women.
In general, places frequented by the higher social classes in Brazil have more white people, even though more than half of the population is made up of blacks and browns. What was your first impression of diversity in the country? It was a short trip, so I can only speak limitedly about São Paulo. I certainly noticed that most of the people I saw were white. Definitely clearer than me. And knowing that the population is close to 50%-50% [no Brasil, 56,2% se dizem pretos ou pardos], I asked myself, “Okay, where’s everything else?” So I’ll have to go back for a bigger picture.
Mrs. he said, in an interview with the Huffington Post, that he used to see an American State Departmento “pale, male and Yale” [branco, masculino e formado em Yale]. Has it changed? Yes. There are many more people who come from universities other than Yale or other elite institutions. But we are not where we should be. The reality is: my position is needed.
We talk about the need to truly embrace and live the values [de igualdade]. Everyone needs to have the same opportunity. Every American is the same. We were created early on with this idea. And yet, as a society, we haven’t reached the place where we claim to want to be. Within the Department of State, under the Biden term, we are excited about the possibilities of making good on our words. So we have work to do.
What mrs. do you think about affirmative policies for the inclusion of blacks? we have a decision [judicial] 1978, a long time ago. The Supreme Court limited our ability to use quotas, which made it difficult for us to implement changes. We have to be more creative, think outside the box, to try to get where we want. In my organization, when we want to hire someone, we insist that the candidates be diverse. And we try to select the best among them.
In recent years, the ultra-right has gained power in the face of advancing identity agendas. It’s such a rebound effect [“backlash”]? Yes. Someone used that word with me yesterday. It reminded me of Nina Simone. In 1976, she wrote a song called “Backlash Blues”. So it’s not a new topic. I think with any change, the rebound comes. People will always be reluctant to change. Even though you understand that the final destination is where we need to be, we are lazy, lazy. So it takes twice as much energy. Rebounds have been happening, and we’ve outgrown them.
What were the effects of the Donald Trump years on US diversity policies? There was the rebound. People who resisted change thought we went too far or that we went too fast. But I believe most of us know—not just believe, know—that our strength comes from our diversity.
President Jair Bolsonaro has a history of colliding with groups that defend the rights of minorities: the feminist, black, LGBTQIA+ movements. Does the American government think that these themes have been respected in Brazil? We are trying to show it through our example. We have a partnership with Brazil, we work together, we recognize common challenges. But each country has a way of approaching them based on their own circumstances. None of us are perfect, let me be clear.
I have said several times during my stay here that when I talk about inclusion and diversity, none of us should be defensive, because we can all make mistakes. Not being perfect America, there isn’t a nation that we can preach to and say “you should do this or that” because we’re also finding our way.
Kamala Harris, the first black woman elected vice president of the US, has received strong criticism for her performance in office. Do you see a racial component there? In my own experience, and any woman would agree, it’s hard to be in the public eye—certainly in politics, a male-dominated environment. People will be quick to point out your missteps, or anything you’re going to do that departs from the norm. Of course, gender issues are involved, race most likely as well. It’s hard to be the first one, it’s hard.
Do you think the US is still a racist country? Well… I don’t know if I can speak for the entire country. I think we recognize that we have work to do. And it starts with an honest assessment of where we are and where we need to go.
Raio-x | Gina Abercrombie-Winstanley, 64
She joined the US Foreign Service in 1985 and served at different embassies in the Middle East — where she was the first woman to head a diplomatic mission in Saudi Arabia. She held senior positions at the White House and the State Department’s counterterrorism office before being named ambassador to Malta in 2012 by then-President Barack Obama. Born in Cleveland, Ohio, he studied at George Washington and Johns Hopkins Universities.
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