Roque Rodrigues, 72, made one of his first visits to Brazil in 1995, seeking diplomatic support for his country, East Timor, which in a few years would gain independence from Indonesia. He was, however, critical of what he found. He said Brasilia was “shy about the problem.”
In Portuguese-speaking Mozambique, Angola and Portugal, Roque created what the East Timorese who fought against the neighboring country called the diplomatic front of the resistance. More than two decades later and in the week of the 20th anniversary of Timorese independence, celebrated this Friday (20th, he says that integration remains essential.
“The sovereignty of countries, particularly those the size of ours, is always under threat,” he tells Sheet. “Independence is increasingly lost even when there is no invasion of tanks.”
The Timorese, who later became Defense Minister and foreign policy adviser, says that the country wants greater integration with Southeast Asia, but without moving away from Portuguese-speaking partners. Regarding the CPLP (Community of Portuguese Speaking Countries), which Timor integrates with Brazil and seven other nations, he says that Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva (PT), if elected, would be able to lead the bloc’s activities.
Roque also talks about the importance of the Portuguese language, generational clashes and the figure of Sergio Vieira de Mello (1948-2003), who headed the UN mission in East Timor.
Twenty years after the restoration of independence, what challenges would you list as the main ones? We live —not just East Timor, but the world— in a period of growing uncertainty. Therefore, the first challenge would be to deepen our integration in the region and in the world, reaffirming our sovereignty. We would like to see more and more affirmation of multipolarity.
Internally, we have to fight poverty and create employment-generating policies, because we are a young country with a high birth rate. In other words, diversify the economy. Independence is meaningless until all people live with a minimum of dignity and decency.
Would the international insertion that you speak focus on Southeast Asia? I have no doubt that, from the point of view of commercial exchange, our biggest partners are in the region. However, our statement was due to a different “face”. We have to look at soul kinship, as the Mozambican Mia Couto says. Let’s look at the Portuguese language or the Catholic religion, two tools that came from outside and helped to build our soul and our identity. Therefore, we give importance and a privileged relationship to Portuguese-speaking countries. Were it not for the shelter we find in countries where Portuguese is officially spoken, it would not have been possible to restore our independence.
Those nations were the ones who welcomed us to do solidary work of an external, political-diplomatic nature. Turning away just for the sake of profits would be a side of sheer stupidity. It is necessary to manage the balance between objective and economic needs and, on the other hand, to deepen our condition as a speaker of Portuguese as well.
The country is experiencing an apparent generational conflict between those from 1975, who participated in the two independences and have been in power since 2002, and the one that grew up under the occupation. Indonesia. There are a lot of people who say that the 1975 generation, mine, has been in power for many years. It is and is not true. On the one hand, the most important vertex of power has been in the generation that fought for the country’s independence. But every generation has a task. Mine had only one purpose: to rescue the sovereignty that was stolen from us. It is up to the next generation to deepen independence and take root in development based on social justice. Shifting power in the exercise of power has never been easy anywhere, but we are doing it.
It is necessary to bear in mind that the future is full of uncertainties and that the independence and sovereignty of countries, particularly those of our size, are always being threatened. Therefore, it is necessary to prepare a resilient generation that takes into account fundamental principles. It is not enough to have technical and scientific competence, it is necessary, above all, to be equipped with great ethical values.
How does language fit into this clash? Portuguese is an official language, but spoken by few people. There is a difference between the national and “nationalist” language. The national one was born here, grew up here and expanded here. The nationalist is the one that, coming from where it came from, becomes the patrimony of the communities of the territory in which it enters and begins to be the chisel with which the identity of a people is shaped.
A marriage must be celebrated between them in order, on the one hand, to modernize the Tetum language and, on the other, to spread the Portuguese language. On the other hand, it is important to say that we are the only official Portuguese-speaking country in this region of the world, which is gaining greater strategic centrality.
How do they deal with Indonesia’s current influence? The movement to reassert sovereignty and consolidate independence is unstoppable. There are no truces. It is not a question of having enemies, but that independence is increasingly lost even when there is no invasion of tanks or tanks. The influence is vast through soft power, and Timor has to be preserved as it is a small country. We have to work on our geopolitical identity. With Indonesia, we have great relations. Increasingly, our partnership is between equals, regardless of size imbalance.
After 20 years, how do you see the UN mission? In a country like East Timor, the UN does not come from scratch. She was able to make a clean slate of the entire experience of the liberation struggle, of the genocide that took place in Timor. And the person who perfectly understood that Timor had a people with remarkable human experience was Sergio Vieira de Mello. The world, ourselves and Brazil did not do justice to Sergio’s role. I had many arguments with him, but I learned to admire him. He had indispensable qualities for today’s world. A crucial character, he knew how to make bridges, he knew how to listen. He’s a rarity.
Brazilian diplomacy has undergone transformations in the Bolsonaro government, especially with regard to South-South relations. Did that impact the relationship with Timor? Brazil was the sixth largest economy in the world, a partner respected by the superpowers, both by the US and Russia, by China and by the African bloc. Brazil is currently in 11th position. In four years, the size of power to which Brazil was justly entitled was dismantled. When the economy goes bad, diplomacy goes bad.
In the past, Brazil sent military contingents who were responsible for the security of our highest leaders. He sent entire teams of educators and opened the door to training the industrial area through Senai. I want to believe that, in 2023, under the banner of a new Presidency, we will relaunch and deepen cooperation between Brazil and East Timor.
And in relation to the partnership of countries in the CPLP? Academics who follow the community say that it falls short of what it could offer. The world needs personalities capable of creating bridges, not islands. The CPLP could become an island with 280 million inhabitants. We would like to make it a bridge that dialogues with the world. In my view, if there is a character capable of doing this, endowed with charisma and empathy, it is Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva. I was the first Timorese to meet Lula. I spent days with him in Guarapari, long before he was president, and I was able to verify his ability there. We need a pontiff, not someone who builds walls. We are tired of walls.
x-ray | Roque Rodrigues, 72
Born in Dili of Indian descent —more specifically from Goa, a former Portuguese colony—, he studied psychology in Lisbon and joined the military. Sent by the Independent East Timor Revolutionary Front (FRETILIN) to Mozambique in 1975, he was a representative in Maputo and later in Luanda. In Portugal, he was a representative of the National Council of Timorese Resistance. He returned to Timor in January 2000, when he assumed a series of public positions, including that of Minister of Defence, Deputy Minister of Culture and advisor for international affairs to the Presidency.
