Panel SA: Without my son, I will reinvent myself and move on to help the country, says Abilio Diniz

After the death of his son João Paulo Diniz last month, businessman Abilio Diniz says that he is missing a piece, he could never imagine such a pain and will have to reinvent himself in a different life.

“I have to move on. And I will, fulfilling my obligations, including my responsibilities as a Brazilian”, he says.

For him, the country is going through a moment of instability, with no prediction of who will win the election a few weeks away from the election. From an economic point of view, he believes that Brazil is not doing so badly, and the fiscal situation is not immobilizing.

Aid for the population weighs heavily on the bills, but it helps with the problem of hunger and needs to continue, he says.

“I think it’s very important, until we manage to make the country grow again steadily, generate jobs and make people have their income and earn money on their own.”

On the polarization between Lula and Bolsonaro, he says he prefers to remain neutral, without criticizing governments and being able to dialogue.

How are you going through this? I have been very reclusive. It’s the first time I talk to someone out there. On the lifeline, the oldest go first. When you take a lifeline reversal, a parent losing a child, it’s very hard. I could never have imagined that there was such great pain.

I’ve been through very difficult times. I was kidnapped. I thought I was going to die, but nothing compared to this moment I’m living. Life will never be the same again, because a piece of me is missing. But I know I have to reinvent myself in this different life, without my son.

I have a family, six children, 18 grandchildren and six great-grandchildren. I have companies, we invest, I have an active role. I can’t miss my appointments. I teach at FGV in a course for 40 people, 14 of whom come from other states. I can’t frustrate people. Can’t miss it.

Despite everything I’m feeling, I have to reinvent myself. And I’m going to move on, fulfilling my obligations, including my responsibilities as a Brazilian, which I’ve had for a long time. I know it’s important, that there are people who like to hear my opinion and what I think. And in this moment that Brazil is living, I have no right to be absent.

One of the things that have been good for my heart is the affection I have received from people. I want to thank. On my social networks, there are a lot of people who have passed messages.

Does this moment in the polarized country worry you? What is the outlook?I don’t think Brazil is doing so badly. I think it goes well. Since last year, I had been believing in recovery. In the pandemic, we didn’t fall as much as imagined, as in other countries. We managed to climb in 2021, when no one believed.

The predictions were that Brazil would not grow in 2022. And look what is happening: we are growing, generating employment. Making individual incomes go up, and this is important for the most vulnerable. The service recovering, the industry. And at the same time, fighting inflation. How much will the US end up with? The Europe?

When you look at Brazil in isolation, there’s a lot to do. We have to make more inclusion, grow by distributing income. It is in growth that distribution takes place. At the moment, the most vulnerable people, with the lowest income, have managed to survive on aid. The R$ 600 given in the pandemic held a lot of people.

Is it continuing now? For me, it doesn’t matter if it’s for electoral purposes or not. It’s giving money to Brazilians. I think it’s very important, until we manage to make the country grow again steadily, generate jobs and make sure that people can earn their own income, earn money on their own. Then you take away those stimuli, which really weigh.

Another thing that is said about Brazil is that the fiscal situation is horrible, that this year it is growing, but next year it will be a disaster. There are people cheering against it. I don’t see it that way, we have a debt/GDP ratio of less than 80%. It’s not something that strangles.

Of course, the ideal would be to make this debt fall and not rise. But to say that we have a fiscal situation that immobilizes us is not true. We have room to spend. It’s not for waste. With all these aids, our debt/GDP ratio is still comfortable.

I do not believe in these projections that it will not grow in 2023. Last year, I was betting on greater growth for this year. It’s not that I’m a better analyst than others. But I think I had the serenity to analyze this country without pulling one way or the other.

Of course, much remains to be done. I would like to see Brazil completely without hunger. No Brazilians with food insecurity. Now, this BRL 600 aid has held up a lot. Enough? Nothing is enough, but it is necessary to maintain the stimuli, for now.

You always preferred to stay neutral. In the economic crisis of Dilma’s administration, when many businessmen publicly criticized, you said: a lot does who doesn’t get in the way. Now some businessmen are positioning themselves in favor of a coup. What do you think about this?I only have information from the newspapers. Of those entrepreneurs who were mentioned [na operação da PF sobre o grupo de WhatsApp em que se defendeu golpe], I only know one well, Meyer Nigri. I did not have access to what is written. I don’t believe that these people were plotting a coup, especially through a WhatsApp group. I think that, today, business or not, people are pro-democracy.

And the card movement for democracy. What do you think?About the letter, I didn’t sign it. First, because nobody invited me. Second, because it became a political party. It seemed like an instrument against Bolsonaro. Not necessarily in favor of Lula, but there was a stamp of something there, already taking a side on one side or the other.

I don’t want to get into this. In the ten years of my life participating in the government [como membro do Conselho Monetário Nacional], in the 80s, I learned a lot. I don’t know if I gave the country much, but I learned. One of them is that you don’t fight with the government. If you want to act in favor of your country, don’t fight. Try to be close, put your ideas.

At that time, I was not the Abilio of today. Fought. It’s not there. I learned it since the Fernando Henrique government. I was close to him, very close to Lula. I helped to make Dilma’s campaign in the first term. I was with her until a good chunk of the second. I felt that Brazil was going to hit the wall. I did not support impeachment, I did not go out into the street.

When Temer came in, he already knew him well. I tried to post my ideas. I think I made my contribution. Bolsonaro came, I kept close. I don’t want to be pretentious, but I said a lot. In the same way that I always kept in touch with Lula. I’ve known him for 40 years. I have a very good relationship with him and I want to remain neutral about it.

Whoever the president is, I want to be close. I want to contribute my experience, what I know about Brazil, both at GPA [Grupo Pão de Açúcar], where I was for 50 years, like Carrefour. The time I was at BRF made me aware of agro. I want to keep working, growing.

The most important thing I have to do right now is help the family after a crash like this. And I want to help my country.

How do you evaluate the signs of Lula and Bolsonaro’s campaigns and what names would be good in the economy?I have the impression that if the current president is elected, he will continue with Paulo Guedes. A lot of people don’t like it, I think he communicates poorly, but I think he’s doing an important job, including finding ways to give subsidies to the population.

I have contact with Lula and his people, but he doesn’t declare anything. I have the impression that he will follow a little what he did in his first term, when he put in an intelligent politician, capable of assimilating this field of economics, equipping himself with technicians, with good economists. In 2003, we more than doubled the exchange rate, but it was short lived. All he had to do was start talking about the measures he was going to take and he fell.

In the case of Bolsonaro, I think he grew up in those four years. He learned a lot. He made mistakes. I believe he’s going to make some turns on some things. But in a way that Brazilians are more satisfied.

Lula will make an effort to distribute income, look out for the vulnerable, do the best for them. But without forgetting that the country needs to grow. It has a lot of foreign capital. And where do investors go? It’s hard to choose a safe haven to put the money in. And Brazil is that.

What do we need?First, legal certainty, clear rules for investment. This is a moment of instability. We are 30 days away from the election and it is not known who will win. It is not known whether there will be a radical change. I think it won’t. Everyone’s waiting. This is going to end. Two months from now, the election is over and life will go on, whatever the outcome. And then, I think there’s a lot of money from outside to get in.

And the rumor that you are interested in returning to Pão de Açúcar?These are just recurring market rumors. My focus on Carrefour is total. I am very committed to the group in Brazil and France.

X-ray

Chairman of the board of directors of Península, his family’s investment company, Abilio Diniz, 85, is also a member of the boards of Carrefour Global and Brasil. Between 2013 and 2018, he chaired the board of BRF. Alongside his father, he was responsible for the creation of Grupo Pão de Açúcar.