There is no way for PT to define spending rule before the election, says Padilha

Quoted to take over the finance ministry in a possible government of Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva (PT), federal deputy Alexandre Padilha (PT-SP) ruled out the possibility of the party presenting a proposal for a rule for public spending during the electoral campaign. — as has been putting pressure on the market.

He said that, before announcing the mechanism, it is necessary to assume the government and know the real situation of public accounts. “Any proposal that had been presented a month, two months, three months ago, or at that moment, could have been dismantled in a week due to the unpredictability of the [presidente Jair] Bolsonaro,” Padilha said in an interview with Sheet.

Right at the beginning of the second round of the presidential race, Lula got the support of economists linked to the creation of the Real Plan and who acted in PSDB administrations. For Padilha, who was Lula’s Minister of Institutional Relations and former President Dilma Rousseff’s (PT) Health Minister, this movement “brings votes” to the PT candidate.

Despite the more conservative profile of the new Congress, which he will assume in February 2023, the deputy said that, based on the experience of Lula and the vice candidate, Geraldo Alckmin (PSB), it will be possible to build a government base if the PT wins the election.

“In 2003, he [Lula] had no majority in the Senate, had no [maioria] in the camera. We will have greater capacity for dialogue with governors and mayors, something that Bolsonaro has not done”, he declared.

Relevant economists joined the Lula and Alckmin campaign. From a symbolic point of view, this has a lot of meaning for the market, but, from the point of view of votes, is it capable of increasing support for Lula? I believe that this public support from historical economists brings votes, turns into votes, without a doubt. In addition to them, the public declaration of support by Simone Tebet (MDB), an important candidate who transfers and brings votes yes, but, more than that, shows society and economic actors that on one side we have Lula and Alckmin, who have a history of responsibility with public accounts in all governments, and on the other hand Bolsonaro, who in his first four years of government did not comply in any year with any rule and fiscal anchor in the country. He carried out a veritable exit operation, deteriorating any situation in the public accounts. He opened up his practice of fiscal irresponsibility in the country, of permanent unpredictability.

Lula got the support of the PDT, Ciro Gomes, and Tebet. Which of their proposals will be incorporated by the PT campaign? They are certainly proposals that will be analyzed by the program coordination. Now the key is a very strong public signal, not only from Simone, but also from the PDT, Cidadania and important historical leaders of the PSDB.

Mr. talks about the history of fiscal responsibility. But, so far, the campaign has not presented a clear proposal on how the fiscal rule should be in a possible Lula government. What should happen to the spending cap? And what will be the new rule? It is no wonder that iconic figures in the construction of fiscal anchors in the country, such as a former minister [Pedro] Malan, as the former president of the Central Bank Armínio Fraga, André Lara Resende, Persio Arida, Henrique Meirelles, publicly declared their support for the [ex-]President Lula and Alckmin. I even understand the desire of some economic actors and some investors to want to anticipate what could be calculations and possible scenarios. But in the recent history of the country, of building stable fiscal anchor rules, all of them only started to be detailed and discussed from the moment you took over the government. When [o então vice-presidente Michel] Temer wrote the letter Ponte Para o Futuro, there was no detailing of the spending ceiling rule. You need to be in the government to have an account of the government’s fiscal situation in your hands, to have a detailed diagnosis of the set of irresponsibility that Bolsonaro can commit until December 31st. In addition, it has to be in the coordination of the government to coordinate this debate with the National Congress and society. Any proposal that had been presented a month, two months, three months ago, or at that moment, could have been dismantled in a week due to Bolsonaro’s unpredictability. The key now is exactly to build a political environment.

Mr. participated in some rounds of conversations with market representatives. How many rounds did you participate in? And what do you hear from them? I was invited because I was Lula’s minister of political coordination. These were very useful conversations. [Isso] allowed us to remind these actors of the posture of the [ex-]president Lula of dialogue and responsibility with the health of public accounts, as well as that of Alckmin. And, throughout the year, what I was saying took shape, that the greatest threat to the creation of an economic planning environment that is responsible for public accounts is Bolsonaro’s stance.

even with the market pressure, Mr. Do you believe that Lula would maintain the decision to place a person with a more political profile in the Ministry of Economy or Finance? Lula and Alckmin are experienced figures in politics. I’ve never seen them anticipate any discussion and I don’t believe they have any discussion in this regard before the electoral process is over. Lula has publicly said that he wants his set of ministries, including the economic area, to be cadres, regardless of profession, who have political skills. He is aware that Brazil today has an enormous political challenge.

Mr. It is quoted as Minister of Economic Affairs. Has there ever been this conversation? Mr. would accept eventual invitation? I never talked, because you don’t talk about it. We are experienced. We have an election to win, a tough, intense race in the next few weeks, and we’re all focused on that.

If Lula is elected, will the government maintain measures, such as Gas Aid and fuel price reduction, in addition to the R$ 600 amount of Auxílio Brasil? If so, how to do this already in January to avoid a vacuum? This is not just the government’s responsibility. In my opinion, it is even the responsibility of the current Congress, which will be leaning over the piece [proposta de lei para 2023] of Budget and sent by Bolsonaro, who foresees a cut of Auxílio Brasil, takes resources from the Popular Pharmacy. This current Congress has a great responsibility in the coming months to not allow this atrocity to happen in our country. If Congress does not guarantee, the [ex-]President Lula will guarantee.

There is the prospect of an application for a license to spend [o chamado “waiver fiscal“], for example, to maintain the value of Auxílio Brasil at R$ 600? What would that value be? Waiver is a term you are using. I never saw the [ex-]President Lula speak on waiver. The Brazilian population must know that the only [candidato] that has a real commitment to maintain this Assistance R$ 600 and has the proposal to add R$ 150 per child is the [ex-]President Lula. The only one who is committed to guaranteeing a real increase in the minimum wage is him. And the debate on this, the details of this, depends on what Congress is going to discuss at this time in the Budget. [de 2023].

The second round of the presidential race has reinforced a religious war. But Lula said that she would not address these issues in the campaign. What is your assessment of this? In no time I saw the [ex-]President Lula talk about it. I haven’t seen campaign videos about it [religião] yet. During the pandemic, I had a very close relationship with religious leaders of the most varied religions, because they are fundamental reception centers, especially in the poorest communities. What I see is an indignation from several of these leaders about the way Bolsonaro tries to desecrate people’s faith for a project of hate, for a project of political dispute, for a project of prejudice and religious intolerance. The heart of our campaign is the suffering of the Brazilian people, from the poorest to the richest.

The elected Congress is more conservative. President Bolsonaro managed to elect allies, such as former ministers. What is the effect of this on negotiations with the Legislature if Lula is elected? Due to the characteristics of the Brazilian political system, it is not possible to know how Congress will behave by looking at the acronym. I’m sure the [ex-]President Lula, along with Alckmin, has all the political capacity, if he wins the elections, to build governance together with this National Congress, based on his political experience. In 2003, he [Lula] had no majority in the Senate, had no [maioria] in the camera. We will have greater capacity for dialogue with governors and mayors, something that Bolsonaro did not do.

X-ray

Alexandre Padilha, 51 years old

Physician, graduated from Unicamp. He was minister of Lula’s SRI (Secretariat of Institutional Relations). In 2011, he took over the Ministry of Health under Dilma Rousseff (PT) and implemented the Mais Médicos program. He left the portfolio in 2014 to run for governor of São Paulo, when he was defeated by the now candidate for vice president Geraldo Alckmin (PSB). He headed the Municipal Health Department of then-mayor Fernando Haddad (PT-SP) from 2015 to 2016. In 2018, he won the election for federal deputy for São Paulo, a position for which he was re-elected in 2022.